Posted Jun 01, 2007 at 10:33PM by Glen D.
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Linden presents the TOS on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. In effect, the TOS provide Linden with a variety of one-sided remedies to resolve disputes, while forcing its customers to arbitrate any disputes with Linden. |
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[Via Reuters]
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4 Comments
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by post (Unregistered) - 2007-06-01 |
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» order
Hi. I read the order. I'm not a lawyer but I thought it read to mean that at this stage in the game, the TOS aren't fair or enforcable, but doesn't say yet necessarily whether his account could have been canceled. I think that and other more specific things like that will be decided later on as the case progresses.
Hi. I read the order. I'm not a lawyer but I thought it read to mean that at this stage in the game, the TOS aren't fair or enforcable, but doesn't say yet necessarily whether his account could have been canceled. I think that and other more specific things like that will be decided later on as the case progresses.
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by John Truempy (Unregistered) - 2007-06-05 |
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» this is BS
This whole thing is such BS. Bragg stole land not just from LL but every member at the time. If you find the back door of a store open can you just take what you want? Why are there no charges of hacking being filled on Bragg? As a lawyer did he not swear to uphold the law? Why is he not being disbarred?
Is the TOU one sided? Heck yes it is but if you don’t like that then don’t use the service!
Also what makes his land worth so much? After all he got undervalued land so if all his land was sold at under value (and you can give land for free in SL) don’t that make his land Free?
This whole thing is such BS. Bragg stole land not just from LL but every member at the time. If you find the back door of a store open can you just take what you want? Why are there no charges of hacking being filled on Bragg? As a lawyer did he not swear to uphold the law? Why is he not being disbarred?
Is the TOU one sided? Heck yes it is but if you don’t like that then don’t use the service!
Also what makes his land worth so much? After all he got undervalued land so if all his land was sold at under value (and you can give land for free in SL) don’t that make his land Free?
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by John's Daddy (Unregistered) - 2007-06-06 |
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» what
John Truempy,
Good questions. Well, genius, maybe because all the crap you've been hearing in the media about Bragg aren't actually true? If you read his actual court complaint, he says that Linden's supposed reason for terminating his account is a LIE. Most of what you heard is the Linden Lab version of events, and if this guy ACTUALLY tried to defraud the company, why DIDN'T they have him prosecuted? Hmmmmmmmmm?
The guy says in the complaint that Google was in some way used to access the site. Well let me ask you something, brainiac, is using Google against Linden Lab's Terms of Service? Hmmmmmmmmm? No? It's not written there, then how is someone supposed to know that using Google will get your account banned?
Seems to me, if what this guy said is true, Linden Labs just punished him for their OWN mistake and then took all his stuff out of vindictiveness. And guess what? THAT is ILLEGAL. Why isn't Linden Labs being shut down and fined and prosecuted for bad business practices? der der der!!
"Is the TOU one sided? Heck yes it is but if you don’t like that then don’t use the service!"
Hahahahahahahaha. What, are you a republican? LOL. Guess what, smart guy, there's these things called CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS in California that Linden Labs forgot to abide by. OOOOPS!!
So guess what? Between Linden Labs and this Bragg guy, tell me again at this point in time, which one of them has DEFINITIVELY broken the law?
Ohhhhhhhhh yeah... it's Linden Labs, not his guy you hate so much! Hahahahaha!
And another thing, Poindexter, you seem to think that if you click the Agree button on the TOS, you should be held to that contract and if you don't like it, you shouldn't have clicked through and entering the contract is your fault. Maybe that's true. Maybe that's not. But guess what? If you read the auction page, it says once you take part in the auction and also when you win land, you enter into binding legal contracts to exchange money for land. Using your SAME logic, then when Linden Labs SOLD this guy the land, sent him the confirmation, and congratulated him with the order, THEY ENTERED A VALID CONTRACT TO TRANSFER THE LAND TO HIM AT THE PRICE HE PAID AND THE PRICE THEY ACCEPTED. The company doesn't like it? Well guess what! If you don't like it, don't auction the land!
And if you read his complain, MOST of the land he purchased was not a part of this disputed land that he got normally. This guy had TONS of land. If you think they can confiscate all his valued crap because they CLAIM he did something wrong with one of them? Well, I guess you're going to get a crash course in REAL LAW, buddy. Linden Labs just went to Equity 101 and they got a big SLAP in the face by the judge. It's going to trial WITHOUT their ridiculously illegal TOS being enforced. Do you really think a couple random people in the jury box who AREN'T Linden Labs apologists will think they should get away with manhandling their customers like that, even if he did do an "exploit" which is completely different from "hacking"? LOL
"Also what makes his land worth so much? After all he got undervalued land so if all his land was sold at under value (and you can give land for free in SL) don’t that make his land Free? "
Nope. If what we think we know about what happened in this case is true, the entire point is that this guy got some land at BELOW MARKET VALUE, which is why Linden Labs didn't let him keep it. If he had been able to keep it, he WOULD have been able to sell it for more, at market value. So the real value it has was market value, NOT the value it was sold to him.
John Truempy,
Good questions. Well, genius, maybe because all the crap you've been hearing in the media about Bragg aren't actually true? If you read his actual court complaint, he says that Linden's supposed reason for terminating his account is a LIE. Most of what you heard is the Linden Lab version of events, and if this guy ACTUALLY tried to defraud the company, why DIDN'T they have him prosecuted? Hmmmmmmmmm?
The guy says in the complaint that Google was in some way used to access the site. Well let me ask you something, brainiac, is using Google against Linden Lab's Terms of Service? Hmmmmmmmmm? No? It's not written there, then how is someone supposed to know that using Google will get your account banned?
Seems to me, if what this guy said is true, Linden Labs just punished him for their OWN mistake and then took all his stuff out of vindictiveness. And guess what? THAT is ILLEGAL. Why isn't Linden Labs being shut down and fined and prosecuted for bad business practices? der der der!!
"Is the TOU one sided? Heck yes it is but if you don’t like that then don’t use the service!"
Hahahahahahahaha. What, are you a republican? LOL. Guess what, smart guy, there's these things called CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS in California that Linden Labs forgot to abide by. OOOOPS!!
So guess what? Between Linden Labs and this Bragg guy, tell me again at this point in time, which one of them has DEFINITIVELY broken the law?
Ohhhhhhhhh yeah... it's Linden Labs, not his guy you hate so much! Hahahahaha!
And another thing, Poindexter, you seem to think that if you click the Agree button on the TOS, you should be held to that contract and if you don't like it, you shouldn't have clicked through and entering the contract is your fault. Maybe that's true. Maybe that's not. But guess what? If you read the auction page, it says once you take part in the auction and also when you win land, you enter into binding legal contracts to exchange money for land. Using your SAME logic, then when Linden Labs SOLD this guy the land, sent him the confirmation, and congratulated him with the order, THEY ENTERED A VALID CONTRACT TO TRANSFER THE LAND TO HIM AT THE PRICE HE PAID AND THE PRICE THEY ACCEPTED. The company doesn't like it? Well guess what! If you don't like it, don't auction the land!
And if you read his complain, MOST of the land he purchased was not a part of this disputed land that he got normally. This guy had TONS of land. If you think they can confiscate all his valued crap because they CLAIM he did something wrong with one of them? Well, I guess you're going to get a crash course in REAL LAW, buddy. Linden Labs just went to Equity 101 and they got a big SLAP in the face by the judge. It's going to trial WITHOUT their ridiculously illegal TOS being enforced. Do you really think a couple random people in the jury box who AREN'T Linden Labs apologists will think they should get away with manhandling their customers like that, even if he did do an "exploit" which is completely different from "hacking"? LOL
"Also what makes his land worth so much? After all he got undervalued land so if all his land was sold at under value (and you can give land for free in SL) don’t that make his land Free? "
Nope. If what we think we know about what happened in this case is true, the entire point is that this guy got some land at BELOW MARKET VALUE, which is why Linden Labs didn't let him keep it. If he had been able to keep it, he WOULD have been able to sell it for more, at market value. So the real value it has was market value, NOT the value it was sold to him.
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by HMMMM (Unregistered) - 2007-06-11 |
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» Think Again
Anyone who plays the game knows that the lindens are useless... they now have a term for cofiscating items... regardless of whether you commit fraud or not
and its called CYBER SIEZURE...
LINDEN LABS... i say noooo... LAZY LINDENS
SECOND LIFE.. i say noooo.... *****TY LIFE
make ur own mind up
Anyone who plays the game knows that the lindens are useless... they now have a term for cofiscating items... regardless of whether you commit fraud or not
and its called CYBER SIEZURE...
LINDEN LABS... i say noooo... LAZY LINDENS
SECOND LIFE.. i say noooo.... *****TY LIFE
make ur own mind up
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